I think Marvel has been doing a great job lately of interjecting "big ideas" into their universe. Be it dealing with minorities (x-men) terrorism (secret invasion) safty vs. freedom (civil war), and more.
There is a way to do it and although it doesn't always work perfectly, I think you have to include the big ideas or comics would be very superficial and not very rewarding (like Adam West or Shumacher Batman)

The Surrogates sounds more like Asimov's R.Daneel Olivaw series, particularly Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun, which are about reclusive societies who only use technology and particularly robots to interact with each other. These are great detective stories that usually get overlooked by Asimov fans, but are integral to the later Foundation series.

Good to see Justin contributing something other than silly male model poses to the discussion.

Batman vs. Kilgore Trout would be a heck of an amusing deal. Perhaps they'd unite to stop Mr. Freeze from obtaining the only vial of Ice 9 in existence... and then Superman and Billy Pilgrim could get on a spaceship and launch it into the Sun.

wow. so many vonnegut references to handle.

i think the reason comics don't necessarily tackle these big issues (whether they be social or moral or religious or, hell, sexual) head on is because either the publishers or the writers or whoever are afraid of losing readers. because at the end of the day, no matter how much you may love and care for these forms of art, it's a business. and they need to make money to keep themselves in business. i think that the reason issues aren't addressed really is because there is a difficulty in talking about something in a very eloquent and entertaining manner without being preachy. most of these issues have probably been met with mixed results, so the companies don't plan on addressing them any further because they already know it won't sell very well.

Big ideas in superhero comics always seem to come across in an extra preachy manner. As a reader, I am not down with that. It's easy to see when Superman's iconic status is being manipulated to talk about values, or Captain America to talk about patriotism. These values are inherent to the characters and once they enter the 'big idea' realm, it gets really obvious and puts me off the story.

from andrew

With the big summer movies. What do you guys this about Movies being adapted to comics? I feel it is mostly a marketing tool, but I do like it when they make one shots that give the charecters in the film more background such as X-men and Superman.

On 'Big Ideas' in Comics

I'm a revolutionary socialist, so it pretty much follows I'm turned on by artists who tackle large social questions and logically, imaginitively follow them to some conclusion. Generally, I think it tends to make for good entertainment and art. Beyond explicitly political comics like Paul Buhle's "A People's History of the American Empire" or Stan Lee's "Election Daze" (both featured at NYComiCon), there are increasing examples of comics tackling large political ideas of late. Wolverine's recent support from an Iraqi reistance cell, or his sympathizing with Afghani vilagers, and the debauched U.S. senator protected by the U.S. military in Iraq comes to mind. Does this qualify as tackling 'Big Ideas'? I think it does. Such plot points never appeared immediately after 9-11, for example. Jason Aaron is relying on an audience sympathetic with, or at least open to considering, Iraqi & Afghanis being justified in combating a self-serving U.S. invasion. The latest Black Panther Annual also comes to mind, which imagines Wakandans successfully resisting the slave trade. This brings to mind Robert Morales' "Truth: Red, White, and Black" which beautifully subverts the epitome of U.S. propaganda Captain America by relocating his origins in the racist Tuskegee Experiments. Kyle Bker's "Nat Turner" isn't just exceptionally drawn, but examines the brutal violence of the 1831 slave rebellion. This is all on top of the 'Big Ideas' the struggles of the '60s made commercially viable, like the X-Men's exploration of the proper response to racism and genocide. DMZ gains it's power from how it re-imagines NYC as if it were today's Baghdad or Gaza. But, of course, comics are a business-part of captalist media which requires it to be profitable and never shake the boat too hard. So it will tend to blandness and safety -which is why, as Pete LePage points out, "Civil War" had to fizzle. Without a society where artists and working people themselves democratically decide what is produced, so shall it ever be. When popular political movements get big enough, readers' and artists' ideas will as well. Right now, it is a good sign that even in corporate comics there is plenty to be inspired by.

that's twice now Alex! Kiss him already! You know you want to! ;P

I think the in Silver Age of comics writers like Stan Lee and Jack Kirby often tackled big issues and big ideas, the whole MCU is based on some very big ideas and social concerns.

Sadly most writing in comics today is more concerned with entertainment and veers away from dealing with such things. Marvel definitely could have taken a more socially conscious bent on Spider-Man's recent troubles, rather than 'magic'. However their take on Civil War was dealing with very big ideas and current socio-political problems, and the fans complain about that too, so what can you say.

I guess I need a definition of "big ideas" because I see quite a few addressed in Marvel books, even now.

Heres the bottom line. Serialized fiction reflects the world around us because it is written monthly or bimonthly. A writer naturally turns to the big ideas of the day.

I think it would be better to say that by "big ideas" they guys are talking about the really really controversial topics of the day. Like AIDS in the 80s (which according to South Park is no longer interesting).

I got your Kilgore Trout reference, Justin. ^_^

I sadly love the stack so much I actually went out and bought the surrogates today after watching the show, and so far the thing is freakin awesome. Love the art, love the concept, the execution seems solid so far, and I'm looking forward to getting the rest of the mystery. More ogn reviews? Go on. I would never have ehard of this otherwise.

Batman vs Kilgore trout? Wow, such a battle could only take place in FAIRYLAND!

!!!?...
...YOU MEAN JUSTIN CAN READ!!!!!!!!!?

JUST KIDDING, JUSTIN!

As for "big ideas" in comics, did any of you catch the last few pages of D.C. Universe #0? To me, comics have ALWAYS been about "big ideas".

I completely understand what Justin is saying about the whole cell phone aspect of Contraband. As much as I loved the film The Departed, there was so much cell phone use in the flick, I thought that it kind of seemed like a long and interesting Verizon Wireless commercial.

god i'm so happy you dropped the bleeps