"How would they do an envent?" Here is an Idea no more crappy events.

There's really good points to both side of the arguments. One being Justin's about Civil War. There's no way you would of got those interesting side stories if Civil War was just sold as a trade. The other side of the coin is books like Ultimate Spider-Man & Walking Dead sell way better in trade paper back. Does this mean fans want just trades? Well, Walking Dead is in it's own self contained universe. I don't think the "trade only" format is coming any time soon. With big epic events such as Secret Invasion & Final Crisis the big two publishing companies make WAY too much money on tie-ins. Look at Countdown. As much as that sucked people still bought the tie ins. (Well at the beginning anyways.) Anyways, I see trades replacing comics in places like Image Comics, and Vertigo Comics. Publishers that have self contained universes in monthly comics. Personally I would love to see stuff like the Luna Brothers Swords come out in trade format, but would hate to see Green Lantern come out in trade format. For the next episode get a bunch of Buffy comics, call them Buffy Pamphlets, and then light them on fire. With your help we can make Pete's head explode.

I'm going to side with Pete and Justin on the pamphlet vs. TBP discussion.

I tend to be very dedicated to certain titles, so a TPB would be good for that kind of reader, but I also like to see what else is out there every now and then. If it were all publishing in TPB form, I doubt I'd spend the amount of money for something I was curious about.

I think if we got rid of monthly comic books it would destroy any real sense of pacing and suspense.


I buy Omega the Unknown...then again I was one of the four people who bought the Circle.

I feel like when people talk about the industry being in trouble, they are mostly focused on the comic book, not the trade or the graphic novel. While I enjoy reading a trade or GN more than single issues (I can't handle the stop start feel of each individual issue) I don't see a way of changing mainstream super-hero comics, especially ones that canvas an entire universe. It seems to me, however, that the original New Mutants came out as a graphic novel first, and then became a series after proving its popularity. Can anyone back me up on this? Maybe that's how the industry would take chances.

from andrew

yes! I only want trades too. I avoid anything I think I might get turned in to a trade because I rather have a trade then a comic. I also like how you say how it would be good for continuity.

I want comic meals not comic bite size pieces.

Doing away with regular issues would end all the great suspense in comics and ruin what I love about the medium. Waiting to see what happens next!
It would be like if TV did away with individual episodes and only showed long form movies. Or like if iTunes made you buy whole albums instead of individual songs. Crazy talk.
Doing away with the regular comics would also spell the end for comic shops. You'd have to get all your trades in chain bookstores and who wants that?
I love that I can go into a comic store with 20 bucks and pick up a variety of titles then decide which ones I want to stick with, not spend 20 dollars on one trade and then not end up enjoying it.
I think there is room for both and the industry needs both to survive.

the thing i got from that discussion is: omega the unknown is awesome...comics and trades can live at peace even if sometimes is frustrating to read comics that dont deliver as it should because its so split that only next month you´ll get something or whatever

I'm split but more siding with Alex. I only really like the pamphlets for my high continuity books.

But for my indie books: DMZ, exterminators... I much prefer the trades and like when they don't have to be written in the 22 pages, SURPRISE, format.
I say keep pamphlets around as long as they make money but allow some books to move to their own larger formats.

I totally agree with Pete.

Comics are meant to be serialized and I love that at the end of each issue I'm left hanging. I enjoy thinking about what will happen next month, but when I read a trade of an arc I fly through it and any cliffhangers I come into mean nothing to me.

Personally I collect both trades and single issues but I don't ever want to give up single issues. It would make the comic shop experience very costly being unable to sample from all sorts of titles and to see nothing but trades on the shelves would be terrible.

I totally agree about the awesomeness Moore's Supreme run. It's just fantastical. His work on superhero reconstruction is absolutely as awesome as his earlier deconstruction stuff. Supreme is the middle ground between his work on Watchmen and Tom Strong.

Also, pamphlet comics should be released monthly as digital downloads for free and only printed on paper in trade format. That allows for the monthly continuity building Justin and Pete are shackled to, as well as the superior storytelling format that Alex (and I) favor.

All interesting titles you guys picked.

I've heard of the Concrete series but I could never find any trades for it. Maybe when I hit NYC soon I'll go try and find some of them. Anything by Alan Moore is 100% fantastic, and if Alex Ross is doing anything (even just covers) with Moore, then that is a sight to see. Plus I know I have been digging into Loeb for abit, but Hush is a great story by him. It's probably, in my mind, the last great run he's done on a comic. I know not a whole lot of people love this arc, but to me it's a great introduction to a great villian.

The problem with this arguement about trades vs comics is that...isnt it already starting? I mean some comics I've read is clearly starting on waiting for trades to hit so their story can work. Wonder Woman and Spider-Man I know is going this route. I personally like Trades more, cause then I dont have to see pages of ads and just see the story. Plus other writers do just trades instead of making single issues. It's why I'm pushing for the online market since there is little to no ad's in Marvel's library. Either way it's still comics, and I'll read them no matter what. Also, I work at a book store so I can borrow any books for free as long as I want. Sweet. ;)

obviously, alex is right on the book v. tpb debate. it's a no brainer. comic books are for kids and slow readers.

another way to think of what alex is saying is that he wants comic books to be longer.

it's that simple. so all the things like cliff-hangers and corollary stories related to a large universe changing moment can all still be done in trades... but the trades will be fewer than the books... maybe 6-12 trades that come out over a year... and longer than the books...

but there is no doubt that the length of the comic book prevents the medium from crossing over into mainstream adult literature consuming population...

having said all that, pete's mini-tirade over pamphlets was a thing of beauty... it was like a mini-version of a few good men.

I actually think all of you have valid points and are right. Personally i look for one shot novels and trades, thats what i enjoy, thats how i keep interested. But i do see the flip side of people who like the comics.

Pete Got heated!
That was a really fun one guy's!
But Alex I'm sorry but I think Justin and Pete are right.
Though I can see Comics being on the net only and the Hard backs being the only way to really have a non digitaly version.

personally i agree with pete that it would just take way too long it the comic book industry all of a sudden just went to trades! we are already wating a month for the next issue and then sometimes the book come out late and we wait even longer! Though i also like trades because for example i just cought up with geoff johns green lantern because of the trades. They give you the chance to check something out if you are late to the book but everyone is telling you to check it out

What is the deal with the trade / monthly debate AGAIN. AGAIN ???

that was a really great discussion, guys. all of you had equally valid points that you supported extremely well and not just by going "well you're dumb." i love going into a comic shop week in and week out and picking up the next chapter of a book. it may be a relatively short read on some issues, but most of the time i go back and read it again, if not just to look admire the artwork. there is something so satisfying about reading a chapter of a much larger work, then having to wait for the cliffhanger to be resolved. it generates excitement, interest, and satisfaction (if the next issue's good).
that said, i do think that trades are equally important. i dont mind writers writing for the trade (sorry pete), because that definitely makes it more accessible for someone who doesn't go to an LCS every week like some of us. a trade also preserves the art and writing much better than an issue because it's in a hardcover or softcover collection, and i think people would take care of something resembling a book more than just an individual issue. that's the reason for the DC archive editions and the fourth world omnibuses being released, along with Marvel's masterworks. and that is great because it's allowing future generations to experience these iconic and classic stories where those individual issues are long lost.
i think that trades will definitely have more of an impact and influence on the industry for years to come. i dont think that the issues will ever be gotten rid of in favor of trades, but trades will probably come out quicker (as if Marvel doesn't put them out fast enough already).

whew.
and i gotta say, i enjoy the pamphflutes.

I'm with Alex in a way. Go trade or go free.
I equate it with other mediums. Music, I can listen to the radio all I want for free or download a song for a buck. If I really like it I purchase the whole CD. TV, I can look at all the shows for free and I'll make an appointment for the ones I like. If I really like it, I'll buy the DVD. Which brings me to the industry that is in dire straits, Movie Theaters. Let's see I can buy 2 tickets once or buy it on DVD forever, or rent it for a lot less. Let's see I can buy a few comics at 3 to 4$ and hope one is good or I can buy 1 trade that I know is good. No brainer.

Even Floppy is a better word than Pamphlet.

The SpoogeGoob Returns!
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3323/goobspooge2yn7.jpg

I think I may know what it is now. Pete's been wearing that Punisher shirt under TV lights for a year now...its his BO embodified!

What's with the "trades vs. comics" discussion again? This was just done a few weeks ago.

Thank you, Pete for saying what needed to be said about the "pamphlet" term.

Pete... I'm burning a Buffy pamphlet right now.

"Panflutes" take 5 min. to read for normal people. For Pete it takes about 10.

first off, alex is crazy. for me comics is all about issues. it's about going to the comic shop every wednesday and picking up a fat stack of comics and reading them one after another. i love the serialized month to month format of issues. if a comic series is really great than i'll usually pick up the trade. if i missed a series i'll pick up the trades. if we had to wait for trades it would completely ruin momentum between books. you would have to wait months for the next one to come out and i think we'd just have a bunch of creative teams telling their own versions of the story and we wouldn't have long runs on titles.

I LOVE MY ISSUES!

I think the main problem of just writing trades is that it takes away a lot of the suspense you get from the book. At the end of an issue when you have a cliffhanger it makes you need the next one. In a trade you lose that, you just turn the page.

It would completely change the way comics are written, and i think the industry would suffer in the long run.

Also I dont mind payin £2.20 to try out a new comic. I wouldn't pay over £10 to read something new and would probably just stick to writers and characters i enjoyed. Therefore it would become even harder to get into the industry.

I agree with Alex. I prefer trades, comics are rip offs.